Gays and Baby Killers: A Shaky Alliance?

How would you like to ask the pro-choice mob a question that is guaranteed to have them jumping around like worms on a hot rock?  Well, read on.  

Three facts are important to know.  First, though there are certainly members of the gay community who are pro-life, go to any large public event put on by the pro-choice gang, or read any edition of the NOW Times or MS Magazine, and you will see that the “mainstream” homosexual lobby and the “mainstream” abortion lobby are joined at the hip.

Second, the current “enlightened” and “politically correct” view is that homosexuality is not a choice but a function of genetics.  While I am not convinced this is true, if it is then it is only a matter of time before scientists identify the genetic marker for homosexuality.
 
Third, the abortion lobby has made it clear that they will never back away from their fundamental assertion that the reasons for abortion are no ones business except the women who have them. 

In light of these three facts, let’s ask our enemies one simple and completely appropriate question:  Should it be legal for a woman to kill her unborn child solely because there is genetic evidence that the child may turn out to be gay? 

When you ask that question, their only options are to either abandon their basic position or risk alienating one of their most loyal support groups.  We should also keep in mind that these people have failed this sort of test before.  You may recall that standing-up for the disabled was, at one point, sold as an integral part of the liberal agenda.  But the first time that effort conflicted with the abortion license, the Godless Left did not hesitate for one moment to throw the disabled under the bus. 

The result is that, for example, in America today over 90 percent of babies with Down syndrome are killed in the womb.  In fact, legalized abortion has so decayed American society that abortion is now the default position for women carrying a child with even the most insignificant abnormalities.  In our brave new world, if a new mom delivers a handicapped baby she better be prepared to routinely answer the question, “Didn’t your doctor tell you about this while you were still pregnant?” 

That sorry question and all it implies is part of the “better-dead-than-disabled” mentality that now infects our country.  And make no mistake about it, that mindset is the sole responsibility of the pro-choice mob and it has helped them sell lots of abortions.  To one degree or another, it has also created a rift between them and those who truly care about the disabled.

Whatever the consequences, it is pretty clear that the Choice Mafia is not going to turn off this path.  They have apparently decided that they cannot afford to say that any woman should be denied her “right to choose” for any reason.  If a “homosexual gene” is ever identified, the bloodbath they are currently prosecuting against Down syndrome and other “imperfect” children will be expanded to include those who might turn out to be gay.  In fact, we may discover that parents are actually more likely to have a potentially gay child killed than one with Down syndrome. 

If the homosexual lobby has not yet thought about this issue, it’s time they did.  We need to show them that when the American holocaust turns its attention in their direction, it will be their pro-choice buddies who not only defend it but carry it out.     

We should also introduce the reality that this phenomenon is not going to be limited to homosexuality.  Some scientists are now speculating that genetics may influence people to embrace certain political ideologies.  So imagine that someday a conservative, but otherwise pro-choice, organization launches a campaign to encourage – not force or require but simply encourage – pregnant women to kill any fetus they are carrying who is identified as having a politically liberal genetic marker.  Would these pro-choice death-merchants have any problem with that? 

If you analyze what genetic scientists are now suggesting, the possibilities for this line of dialog are endless.  If it is true that virtually every person born into the world is a potential member of a group that could be genetically identified, that means they could be targeted for extinction through abortion. 

The bizarre part of this is that, if we press this issue to its logical conclusion, the abortion lobby may be forced to adopt a completely different “abortion-justification” argument.  Instead of saying that women should be allowed to abort for any reason whatsoever, they may have to say that the only women who should be allowed to abort are those who are doing so for no reason whatsoever.

Comments (Comment Moderation is enabled. Your comment will not appear until approved.)

How true this is! If you can get fighting and division going on amongst the left, they will battle themselves down.

Also, I do get very frustrated by OB/GYN offices trying to sneak" in genetic counseling in the routine office visits
every time we are there for another child. When we were expecting our fifth child, my wife unknowingly signed a
paper authorizing this "counseling." Then after some feminist nurse started asking her a bunch of strange questions, she knew something was up. By the time she found out she was in the middle of genetic counseling, it was too late, our insurance company was already billed. So, when we had a similar routine visit with our seventh child, we were prepared to declare that we did not desire *any* genetic counseling. My wife is much more reserved than me. I wanted to shout out loud in the office, "THIS DOCTOR WANTS TO ADVISE US TO KILL OUR BABY IF HE IS DISABLED!

THE NERVE OF THIS GUY!" My wife's sister had Down Syndrome. We would never reject our child if he were born with Down Syndrome. My wife and I have discussed that if we never give birth to a Down Syndrome child, we may adopt one after we are too old to have our own.
# Posted By Mike Southerland | 8/17/07 3:52 PM
The choice is clear: Heaven or Hell !!!
We are in this world for a very short time to decide
where we want to go for all eternity. Homosexuality,
abortion, pornography, cloning, you name it! All this
garbage is unquestionably slavery to sin and the
pathway to Hell !!!
# Posted By Lila Espinosa | 8/17/07 6:29 PM
Mark, you make a very good point about the yet-to-be-discovered gay gene but there is an even better example of the weakness of the pro-abortion (choice) position. Up here in Canada there is presently a hue and cry against an ultrasound clinic that identifies the gender of the in utero baby. This clinic advertises in the ethnic media because this group has a preference for male children. Stange thing is that leading the charge to shut this newspaper down is the usual pro-abortion crowd. They are calling for the ads to be pulled because they know that women are being targeted for death before they are born.
# Posted By John | 8/17/07 6:55 PM
"Instead of saying that women should be allowed to abort for any reason whatsoever, they may have to say that the only women who should be allowed to abort are those who are doing so for no reason whatsoever."

There is always a reason. "I don't want a baby" is, indeed, a reason.

Perhaps our stance should instead be, "A women should have the right to abort. Period."
# Posted By Marilee | 8/17/07 8:17 PM
"they may have to say that the only women who should be allowed to abort are those who are doing so for no reason whatsoever."

No, they will still be allowed to abort for any reason whatsoever, but if they choose to do so because they believe that the child will turn out to be gay, then they will be accused of a hate crime.

It is wishful thinking that pro-gays and pro-aborts will separate over this issue. And I'm sure the abortionists will not mind reporting hate crimes in order to please their pro-gay buddies. Sorry.
# Posted By marcus | 8/18/07 2:34 PM
Great writing. I've posed this question in multiple forms and in many different online venues, and the outrage was palpable. On Yahoo! Answers, my questions was deleted because of "threat of physical harm". Unbelievable.

When asked to comment on this particular aspect of abortion, gays and other "pro-choicers" stammer and stutter pathetically in trying to formulate their response. It inevitably ends up with them :stomping their feet: like children because they've been caught in a dilemma that, in their world, has no solution. They actually resort to accusing me of homophobia by assuming that I'm actually in FAVOR of aborting homosexuals, even after I make it clear that I not only condemn it, but that I also condemn the abortion of ALL OTHER GROUPS. It brings to mind the well-known and particularly apt quote from from a Nazi Holocaust survivor:

FIRST THEY CAME FOR THE JEWS

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

- Pastor Martin Niemöller

Well, I am willing to speak out for homosexuals, not because I agree with their lifestyle, but because we are all Gods children and none of us are without sin. Nevertheless, we are all worthy of the life that God gave us to ultimately come to know Him.

Who knows, maybe one day our society will decide that Caucasian, nearsighted white women are not worthy of being born.
# Posted By Michelle | 8/18/07 4:22 PM
"Mark Crutcher: Should it be legal for a woman to kill her unborn child solely because there is genetic evidence that the child may turn out to be gay?"

Hi Mark, I'm Pro-Choice and to me it makes no difference if gay or not is the deal. I am okay with "elective"abortion up to viability. Most states have restrictions at 24 or 26 weeks, and that's okay with me too.

After that, whether the fetus has that certain gene or group of genes or not, I see it as getting increasingly similar to a full-term born baby, in that it's developing some mental awareness, sentience, the ability to suffer, have emotions, etc.



........

The result is that, for example, in America today over 90 percent of babies with Down syndrome are killed in the womb. In fact, legalized abortion has so decayed American society that abortion is now the default position for women carrying a child with even the most insignificant abnormalities. In our brave new world, if a new mom delivers a handicapped baby she better be prepared to routinely answer the question, “Didn’t your doctor tell you about this while you were still pregnant?”

I am not saying that Down's Syndrome people are "bad" nor any less valuable than anybody else, necessarily. I do understand how some people would want not to have Down's kid, though. And I also understand how some other people would not dream of ending a pregnancy just because of the Down's genes. You may think it as "insignificant," but whether a given person or couple will feel that way is a question.

Doug
# Posted By Doug | 8/18/07 5:46 PM
First the safe abortion is a lie there are none.There are women dying everyday and it's all covered up.In those so call it safe places which are not safe.There was a time when records were kept.All for the love of money not for a woman.Also the cover up of all the women in pain because of the lie abortion is the answer.I know because I'm one of many that I have known.

I thought abortion was my answer then.I had no ideal how
hard it would end up.It was like losing someone I had loved
all of my life.I did not understand until it was to late.It really hurts knowing there are people hurting as bad as I do.I can not believe I could be sold such a lie!

There were a doctor & a nurse who were used to make a
video of an abortion.It was called the silent scream were
it shows a baby while being aborted.The whole time the baby
is run in the womb until it is caught.At that time the baby
open it mouth in pain.That doctor that had performed over
10,000 abortions & the nurse who was proabortion became
prolife. There is also a woman named Carol Everet who
explains what she did when she owned her own abortion
clinics.How she loved going to our schools to teach our
boys & girls about birth control.Because she knew they
either would not end up using it or would use it wrong.
And become pregnant which would make her a more money.
In the end we got what we payed for right even though we
are the ones paying for what we did in the end.Who cares
if we end up dying because of the abortion?
# Posted By Annette | 8/18/07 9:28 PM
If the truth about me had been known while I was in utero, there would have been cross-hairs on my back: I was severely psychologically impaired from early childhood, and was never effectively treated with medications until I was 47 years old. Those who know me now that I have gone through a lifetime of struggling for stability others take for granted, note the value of my service to others in need. It is likely that I wouldn't have been so oriented, had I not been a needy person myself, just as God used my disability to put me on the straight and narrow path. Please envision a response to the vicious lie in the flowery bumper-sticker "every child a wanted child": Every Child Is Wanted - If God Hadn't Wanted Them, He Wouldn't Have Made Them!
# Posted By Charles | 8/19/07 6:14 AM
Indeed Mark. You're correct.

I have a child-hood friend who decided she was gay about a decade into our friendship.

She thought abortion was 100% acceptable and wanted to intern in college at Planned parenthood! Hand-in-hand. It is true.
She knows I love her and realize I am no better than she is in the eyes of the Lord as a sinner, so the door remains open for when she asks me questions...

On another note Mark, God bless all your faithful service for the plight of the precious unborn child made in the image and likeness of God...
# Posted By Heather Combs | 8/19/07 2:00 PM
I don't know a single pro-choice person who is anti-gay. I've never read about them or know anyone who knows one. I'm sure there are some somewhere.

I know anti-abortion people who are anti-gay. I've read about them and I know people who know them.

Therefore I consider your post to be a hypothetical about a technology that doesn't exist and its likely effect on a numerically insignificant group of people. Nice to know people still have time to think about the little things in life.
# Posted By Mark Dowling | 8/20/07 11:29 AM
Doug,
Please be respectful of individuals with Down syndrome (even if you think their lives are optional). Please don't refer to them as "Down's kids." The respectful reference would be "baby with Down syndrome," "child with Down
syndrome," etc.

" do understand how some people would want not to have Down's kid, t" They THINK they wouldn't want her. But if they did, they would experience the love of God as no other human could show them. I did not want a child with DS. Luckily I didn't have prenatal tests; I found out when my daughter was born. I thank God every day for the gem he put in my life. I pity those poor mothers who have rejected a great gift.
# Posted By Ellie | 8/20/07 8:16 PM
Very good point Mark. I have many friends who are GLBTI and have parents that are very pro-equality, yet extremely harsh towards their non-hetero children. Its along that Not In My BackYard stream of thought - these people that are OK with GLBTI people, as long as they aren't directly linked to any of them.
# Posted By Phil | 8/20/07 11:46 PM
Doug,

We don't always get to choose in life - sometimes we are caught in a flood, sometimes we are born into great wealth, sometimes we are robbed. We are talking about a human being, not a brand of toothpaste. The real point is that we don't know whether something will be what we think of as "good" or "bad", and to choose to kill an unborn human being because you think the child will be a "bad" experience, based on prejudice, is an appalling notion.

Many times, it's just that which we perceive as "awful" that provides us with the most enriching life experiences. No one ever became richer in spirit from an easy life. If you don't believe me, think of the times in your life when you learned the most; try to think of a real fun time you had that had a profound spiritual effect on you. To abort because of something like Down's syndrome is spiritual poverty.
# Posted By Eleanor | 8/22/07 10:53 PM
I liked your article, it was an interesting read. However, I think I know the answer to your question "Should it be legal for a woman to kill her unborn child solely because there is genetic evidence that the child may turn out to be gay? " that you'll get from the pro choice side.

It will be something like "Of course it should be legal! I support homosexuality, but if a woman doesn't want to give birth, it doesn't matter what her reason for not wanting to give birth is- even if it's as ridiculous as not wanting a gay child!"
# Posted By Ali | 8/23/07 4:14 PM
Mark,
I was recently discussing abortion to a liberal acquaintance of mine, who although didn't support pro-choice, did however state, "If we would attack poverty first, maybe abortions would end exponentially." I thought that was a cavalier
statement. I personally can't believe >1 MILLION babies are aborted every year (U.S.A.) because the majority are living in poverty. Do you have the stats to support the breakdown of who is getting abortions? Please provide. Thanks!
# Posted By Dan | 8/25/07 7:26 AM
Hello Mark,

You asked for statistics regarding who is having abortions. Please see the quote below from the Guttmacher Institute:

The abortion rate among women living below the federal poverty level ($9,570 for a single woman with no children) is more than four times that of women above 300% of the poverty level (44 vs. 10 abortions per 1,000 women). This is partly because the rate of unintended pregnancies among poor women (below 100% of poverty) is nearly four times that of women above 200% of poverty* (112 vs. 29 per 1,000 women[3,1]
Source: http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/fb_induced_abortion...

You said in your post "I personally can't believe >1 MILLION babies are aborted every year (U.S.A.) because the majority are living in poverty." Well, poverty is a very real contributor to the abortion rates in this country.

The main element in your argument that is lacking is a great lack of compassion for people - all people in this country. The poor, gays, and anyone who has faced a situation that is not black and white. And most situations are not. I think that the legal abortion and the ethics of aborting based on positive results of genetic testing are two related but very distinquishable debates.
1) Legalization of Abortion: Unfortunately your arguments are based mainly on fantasy and not fact. The fact is that women are not dying in the "safe places" you mention. The rates of deaths due to abortion have gone down significantly since abortion was legalized in this country. Women die when they use knitting needles and coat hangars to abort themselves. They die when they, facing a desperate situation, take matters into their own hands. You really need to get your facts straight. And even if you maintain that abortion is wrong based on your religious views, that is absolutely fine with me. But have some compassion. Your essay is filled with hate. You call people who are pro-choice your enemies. What is it that you want to accomplish? You say that abortion is murder, but you don't even do your homework to know that poor women have 4 times the abortions than wealthier women. You don't even look to the underlying causes. You think that decisions to have an abortion are black and white and that godless people commit immoral acts that must be stopped by the moral righteous (i.e. you and all those who share your hate). Well it's not a black and white issue. Women are suffering. Children born into families who cannot provide for them are suffering. Do you ever think about that?
2) Once we can agree that abortion needs to be safe and legal then I would be happy to discuss with you the ethics of genetic testing and aborting based on this. You may talk about accepting people who are different but you only accept people selectively. You obviously aren't too thrilled about gay people. And if there were a "homosexual gene" you can bet that it would be the same christians who call aborting a baby with Downs Syndrome a hate crime that would making up excuses as to why they'd like to abort their gay sons and daughters. You're already sending gay men and women through re-education programs to make them not gay. And don't bring in genetics. As far as most people I know are concerned - whether it's genetics or not - being gay is ok.

And so, in closing, I think that you need to reexamine the true teachings of your God, the true meaning of being a Christian. You certainly aren't practicing these principles with your hate for other men and women who want to make the world a better place by eliminating the suffering in the world caused by poverty and conditions that put people in the position of contemplating abortion. If you would rather not do this, I suggest, Mark, that you move to Saudi Arabia or your own imitation where you can all enjoy a nice theocratic regime. If that is what you'd like for America though, you're going to have to forget it. America is about understanding the struggles of others and thinking outside one's own situation, family, congregation, or community. This is a big world with a lot of problems. I urge you and others reading this blog to become a part of the solution by doing your homework on the issues and listening to people from all sides of these important debates rather than brand people who think differently as enemies.
# Posted By Beth | 11/2/08 3:01 PM
From Revelation 7:13 to 17...
"And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

And I said unto him, Sir thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living foundations of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

IN MEMORY OF MY GRANDCHILD
WHOM I MISSED MEETING
GOD LOVES MORE THAN WE DO IF ONLY WE WOULD LOVE GOD
THIS IS PROLIFE'S TRUE MESSAGE: ALL CHILDREN (EVEN AS BABIES) HAVE A NATURAL BIRTHRIGHT TO BE LOVED
# Posted By marga | 11/7/08 2:36 PM
From Revelation 7:13 to 17...
"And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

And I said unto him, Sir thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat.

For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living foundations of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes."

IN MEMORY OF MY GRANDCHILD
WHOM I MISSED MEETING
GOD LOVES MORE THAN WE DO IF ONLY WE WOULD LOVE GOD
THIS IS PROLIFE'S TRUE MESSAGE: ALL CHILDREN (EVEN AS BABIES) HAVE A NATURAL BIRTHRIGHT TO BE LOVED
# Posted By marga | 11/7/08 2:38 PM

Mark Crutcher of Life Dynamics